Mail Unleashed Transcript
Rory
Greetings, mail fans. And welcome to another episode in the new series of Mail Unleashed. Mail Unleashed is brought to you by Marketreach. And in it, I interview leading marketers from the UK. To share our continuing love for the great medium that is direct mail.Now, I'm delighted to be joined today by Nishma Patel Robb. Who's with me here. Now Nishma. Well, it's a long list. She's been actually the director of brand and reputation at Google. Recently she started The Glittersphere. Which is a business looking to uncover female creative talent here in Britain. But she's also the president of WACL. That's the venerable Women in Advertising and Communications in London. Hundred years old organisation for women in the advertising and media industry. And particular passion of mine. She's also president of the History of Advertising Trust. Which is, I think, the largest archive of advertising material in the world. Which you can go and visit in a glorious purpose-built site, not far from Norwich. So Nishma, welcome.The first thing everybody's going to want to know is why on earth would Google, when you were at Google. Why would it use direct mail? After all, you pretty much know who everybody is and you've got a digital way of reaching them. And yet you were quite an extensive B2B direct mail advertiser. I think that's right.
Nishma
Absolutely. Well, first of all thank you very much for having me here. It's a pleasure. And for that introduction. Yeah, it's one of those things I think even when I first joined Google, I was surprised actually how much of our marketing commitment was around direct mail. But when you think about it, and actually think about it for any campaign, it made perfect sense. So this, as you say, was predominantly around B2B. So this is about communicating to, predominantly small businesses. But actually I have some examples of what I did with larger businesses as well. So these would be kind of more household brands, advertising agency, creative agencies as well. But for the smaller businesses, this is about trying to reach the UK 5 million or so small businesses in the UK and encouraging them to use Google. And I suppose one of the issues, perhaps. Is particularly in the earlier years. So this is perhaps going back even just 6 or 7 years ago. So this is not talking about right from the start of Google days, but even 6 or 7 years ago. There were so many businesses that hadn't necessarily, considered digital marketing. Weren't necessarily on a digital footprint. You know, and I if I think about the proportion of businesses that are currently on Google and have a Google footprint. It's certainly not the entirety of the small business network in the UK. It's a proportion of them. So thinking about reaching customers outside of the bubble that we were in, was critical. So of course digital marketing was a key part of it. And bringing people back into the process of setting up their free listing on Google. And then think about advertising. But to reach them, we had to find more creative ways. And direct mail was one of the most efficient and effective ways of doing that. Because it allowed us, with really simple messaging, to kind of drop on a doormat, which wasn't necessarily always doormats of businesses. No. It's actually kind of a more broader reach campaign at times as well. Which was around, you know, is this another way of getting eyeballs or visitors into your shop or into your business? So this wasn't necessarily also just targeting e-commerce businesses. Any business I always remember some of my favourite stories were were thinking about hairdressers or, you know, kind of, you know, retail outlets on the high street who pre- COVID would never have considered the need of a digital footprint. Of course. And so reaching them with Google. In a direct mail format in a really creative way. That made them not just think about Google. But actually make them think about digital marketing and simplifying it in a way to drive action.
Rory
I think this is actually an incredibly important thing. Because the other thing, of course, is that, the other great thing with mail is that it's tangible, it's keepable. It's even what you might call, you know, forward-able. Okay. In the sense that very few people are going to receive a message telling them to sort out their listing on Google. And they’re going to do it there and then. What they will do, is what we call in this series, the ‘toast rack effect.’ You get ‘this is actually quite important.’ I'm not in the mood or free to do it right now. But I will put it to one side and do it later or as I would guess, probably happened with some small businesses. They get their kids to do it, or something similar.
Nishma
But I think the idea, as you say, is, there can be that barrier to, understanding how to do it. There can be that understanding the safety around it, is this legitimate? But I think your point by keeping it is critical. if you have a deluge of emails. So you're a pub owner. Yeah. Deluge of emails. Assuming that you are kind of digitally driven enough, which most businesses are now. And you're concerning yourself with supply and stock and this and that. The bottom of the list is some of those marketing things. And so sometimes, as you say, being handed something in, businesses that certainly have a more physical nature. We found to be very effective. Because you say it's the passing to someone. Do you know? Pop it over here, etc. It’s same reason why you see in so many businesses. You know, we went to great lengths to make sure they would have the right stickers in there.Or you know, in-shop materials to encourage people to leave reviews.
Rory
Brilliant.
Nishma
Because it's that same physical nature. So I think the idea is, particularly, I found as marketing at Google. You’re marketing something that doesn't exist. Yeah. It's ether. You can't touch it. You smell it, feel it, know it, it's there. And it had great credibility in the sense of trust. But at the same time, its lack of physicality was a challenge. Direct mail was one of the few ways, other than kind of in-person events. Where we were able to give Google a bit of life. And that was wonderful because all of a sudden you could get across a bit of brand. A bit of who we are. There was the cheek and the wink that we often talk about as Google. The simplicity. It was just a more playful space to be in.
Rory
I always noticed that, right, retired bankers and lawyers okay. They always go and do something, like start a brewery or buy a vineyard. And you suddenly realise you spent 25, 30 years of your life making money out of something entirely ethereal. And you're desperate just to see a truck leave your premises with some physical goods on it.
Nishma
I think that's why you see so many. I used to love presentations from creative agencies. We'd always overindex on the creative expression that you would see through out-of-home, through direct mail, through experiences. And it's because, you know, not to take away from the digital assets in the film often. But actually, there's something really beautiful about being able to see, touch, feel, point at, that really matters. And I agree with you being able to hold something. And the creativity of thought, because there is an expense and a cost attached to doing something that's going to be printed and made. There was always the sustainability factor. Yeah. As well. Which I think has been incredibly misunderstood. So there's two things that have been really challenging. When you look at the marketing mix. One is around short term ROI measurement. Yeah. And I think the other thing is our understanding of, factors like sustainability. So the idea that, you know. Do we really truly understand the cost of your full email programme. Knowing what it actually costs, you know, servers and A.I. We're getting more smarter about this now. Versus a printed piece of material. The effectiveness. Yeah. The wastage and I mean wastage in terms of reach or personalisation. And actually the thing I feel really passionately about is. In a world,I think we're getting totally more bland generally. And I know this is Thomas Heatherwick’s big, kind of the blandemic of buildings. I think in advertising we've got to push harder at creativity. And if mediums like direct mail force us to be more creative. Brilliant. I'll put more of it on the campaigns. One of the other programmes we ran. Which I loved as well, was around, teaching kids how to be safe online. So we have a programme where we, for kids aged 7 to 11. We go to all the state schools. And Google would teach the kids.
Rory
I didn't know this.
Nishma
It's called Be Internet Legends. And it was an amazing programme. And we would work with teachers, but we’d go into schools. One of the things again. Was how do you get the piece where you teach the kids? Who'd engage. It was fun and there was like colourful robots. And they would teach them about you know, keeping passwords safe. Or how to behave and be kind. It's actually quite simple for that age group. I think it has to be adjusted because everyone's kind of, far more savvy now. But the idea was just how do you get that then to the parents? Because that was the clear loop. So one of the things we did was actually used direct mail to send home a flat-pack robot. So that the children would have to almost go through a five step sequence online with the parent to show them what they learned. And it was that physical activity that was needed because we'd experimented with. You know, send a certificate home. And most parents will know you get a load of stuff in the bag that often goes in the bin. Or it never makes it home. This idea of sending this physical robot home. Which was, you know, yes, it was kind of carded envelope.
Rory
So it reassured the parents that the children had absorbed the message from the training.
Nishma
And then actually, we had lots of messages from parents about things that they had learned. But I think it's that sense of responsibility. Again, when I think about the reputation from a Google point of view. It was, the job didn't stop there with just teaching the kids in school. It was, how do you use marketing to then connect it beyond. And make sure we were engaging parents around this as well. Because they have as much of a responsibility about, actually. And needed education and support and reassurance. Actually these are ways I can keep my kids safe online. Google are big believers of digital marketing. But I think it's around, as good marketeers need to understand the mix. Google are significant spenders on out-of-home. Yeah. And other media. And I think it's around the 360 behaviour. The physical product is important. And I think understanding ROI, sustainability, the role it plays in the overall mix, measuring things over time. And actually there are some things that simply can't be done by digital media. And that's where I think from a marketeer's point of view, there is a danger to cut out or overlook or undervalue different medium like this. Without really thinking about the psychology of us as people. And what persuades, excites, invites us.
Rory
So, the value I always argue for anybody. Especially digital people who tend to have a cultural slight aversion. The argument I always make for using direct mail is very simply. That until you've tried it, you won't know who your potential customers are. Because direct mail is magically different. And it will help you discover customers you never anticipated you would have. Okay. Simply because of the potency it has. When you're developing The Glittersphere, do you have similar plans? And how else do you see direct mail being really valuable to, everything from large businesses to small startups for that matter?
Nishma
So The Glittersphere is a community and a storytelling platform. Very female focused in terms of what we're doing. It's a little bit. If you're familiar with Reese Witherspoon's Hello Sunshine project of telling stories through a female lens. We're doing that, through podcasting and other formats. But also really focusing on how creators and creatives and entrepreneurs, communicate and reach customers or reach viewers. And of course, we're going to use all of the relevant tools that we have in digital. But one of the critical things I found when I met a lot of these female creators, that I have been over the years have kind of become acquaintances with. And actually a lot of people now trying to find relevance in the way that they tell stories. Is they don't want just a one dimensional digital footprint. They want to go beyond that. So direct mail is also critical around actually a lot of audiences that these creators and some of the creators and I say creators, I'm talking about musicians and artists, DJ’s, etc. There is a danger of the bubble you create. You create a following and that’s yours. Nine times out of ten, in order for them to grow.
Rory
And then it becomes so referential and a self-referential prophecy, which is, we've attracted these customers. We define our future customers by our present customers. Rinse and repeat. Yeah.
Nishma
And which is brilliant to a point. And the danger is, is actually. If they, cannot extend beyond the community they've created. There are not just challenges on growth. You can become quite stale. Yeah. And one of the things I have found to your point around actually finding not just new customers. But understanding the kind of saliency of your product or your story or your relevance. Is you've got to find different ways to reach out and being really creative about it. So, for example. You know, book clubs have been hugely successful and important and a great gathering for lots of female community groups. Well, we have devised a podcast group. We have devised a creators group. And this is another way of people coming together and discussing content. We want to create physical assets for that and direct marketing. Because we want to reach people who might not be a podcast listener.
Rory
But this is people getting together in the real world? Just to clarify.
Nishma
Getting together in the real world. But we reach these people in the real world through direct mail.
Rory
Perfect.
Nishma
So this is a way of saying, actually, how do we go beyond our community. Or how do we use our community to go beyond? So can mail all of our community as an example. And actually have them reach out to others? So how do we create a physicality of that? That’s not just a, here's an email. Send it to ten friends. Actually where’s that physical invitation that drops. And when you said earlier, there are some things you can own. You can only do in physical media. An invitation, with a feeling of exclusivity is probably one of those things. And the curiosity of saying you can't immediately consume it. You know, sometimes you're on a trail. To receive an invitation that invites you to something that means you can't just watch all the content, read the website, make a decision. Actually, there's a sense of intrigue, that’s included in this. We were teasing them with bits of information, or about the creator, or the story, or whatever it might be. It's just a really exciting way to get people to, maybe kind of tap into other senses. So we want to help women to be fabulous creators, creatives and entrepreneurs and to achieve economic empowerment. But we want to do it in a way, that's not necessarily following the norm. I think that evolution of the way that direct mail has been used, from what I saw at the archive. You know, in Norfolk, was around actually how direct mail was really used as a key branding piece. So it wasn't necessarily transactional. It was designed in a way that would be kept. And you know, retained or loved and shared. I think it kind of evolved. Direct mail sort of evolved into something slightly more transactional. Or, you know, there was always a call to action. Every marketeer knew to have a call to action on it. I think what's really interesting, when I look at kind of the future of direct mail and its role on the media plan. I think we are moving back to a little bit like a conversation about vinyl or books. Or this idea of the importance in a world is so digital now. And it's so automated, and there's a degree of risk of conformity. And the pandemic being planned. Is actually direct mail offers an opportunity of creating something that's retained. Collected, even. You know, this idea of actually, how does this make me not just drive action to buy, to reconsider with a brand. But actually really helps my reappraisal of a brand. Really considers actually what's in my brand set. What do I retain and what do I share in a physical way, like a gift?
Rory
And if you can create something which the person wants to keep. It's a double win because effectively they're valuing it.And of course it stays around.
Nishma
Yeah, absolutely.
Rory
You saw that interestingly, because one of the things I'd recommend to all young creatives is to go and visit the history of Advertising Trust. Because, first of all. Advertising people are hugely neglectful of their past. I think.
Nishma
The greatest thing any marketeer can do now, in a world where there is, you know, so much more to kind of contend with A.I and automation. Which will be brilliant new tools. They are just new tools. But I think this idea that, we would discount a medium. Or a means of communication that has been so effective for such a long time. It would be crazy because great creative. Brilliant, creative. When executed well on any of these platforms is what stands out.
Rory
And went on an unexpected platform.It can stumble. I think.
Nishma
Double definitely. In the words of the kids you get like triple aura points
Rory
Absolutely. Perfectly put. Well, Nishma this has been absolutely fantastic. Thank you very very much. So, that's all from me for this episode. There will be more. All remains for me to say is that, there are plenty of other episodes of Mail Unleashed. If you simply go to marketreach.co.uk Where you'll find not only more episodes like this, but a whole host of material on how you too can use direct mail to business advantage in ways that you may not have dreamt of yet. Thank you for watching and see you next time.