Mail Unleashed Transcript

Rory 

So after a little bit of a break, we're back. And it's another episode of Mail Unleashed. Today, I'm delighted to actually welcome Sayed Hajamaideen. Who is the marketing and brand director of SMARTY Mobile.

Sayed

It's an absolute pleasure to be here Rory. Thank you

Rory

So Sayed, how did you get to SMARTY Mobile? Where did you start? And how did you get to where you are now?

Sayed

I started my career in a customer facing environment for O2 in the UK. I was always fascinated by the type of people, that would come in and their requirements, how different they were. Then as I actually grew my career, I went more into the commercial and direct response marketing side of the world. And what I loved about it was. Loved seeing creative solutions to drive outputs and action. And I loved seeing the relationship between the two. And over the years I've kind of grown, various different roles for O2, Tesco Mobile, Scottish Southern Energy, and each one had a different challenge. And with SMARTY Mobile, the reason why I loved that challenge was because no one had written its history before. It was a blank sheet of paper. And my curiosity led me to SMARTY in the way of actually here's this brand that genuinely wants to make a difference. To how people connect and their relationship with connectivity. And, I took that as a personal challenge to see if I can satisfy my own curiosity of how people think.

Rory

And you had a little bit of the privilege of a kind of blank slate to start with.

Sayed

Yeah, yeah, which has been fascinating, actually.

Rory

I guess as an MVNO, you're a completely intangible brand in one sense, in that you don't have shops. You only sell direct. In a sense, you're selling an intangible product through, with the possible exception of mail. Largely intangible media. Is it particularly for that reason you find mail really, really valuable in establishing, well, two things, I suppose, you know, a degree of tactile, physical presence. But also, I think trust that goes with that.

Sayed

Yeah, absolutely. You hit the nail on the head. Being a digital-only brand and you're selling something like connectivity, which is so, so, important to people. But you don't have that physical presence. Mail and print in more general gives that sense of trust. And that credibility for us. So it’s quite a powerful medium in terms of the entire media mix, that we go after. And also adds a lot of, importance and, credibility to people that are wondering. Okay, you sound like a good brand, but can I trust you?

Rory

Yes.

Sayed

And actually, that's been proven over the last seven odd years that we've been alive. It’s the number one organic search term for SMARTY mobile is, are they any good? And in a lot of ways, direct mail, actually answers that question quite nicely as part of the entire mix.

Rory

So one question, I mean, both in the past and present. Do you occasionally get pushback from the kind of digital obsessives in the business for using an analogue medium?

Sayed

Not so much in SMARTY We're quite fortunate enough to actually explore different mediums with our test and learn approach, which works. But the one thing that I would say is that actually, we've kind of as marketeers, we've done this to ourselves. Yeah.

Rory

Yeah, we have.

Sayed

And there's a lot of value in, attribution and econometrics, but actually it's almost on us. It's our responsibility to educate the business that we work for around actually the right mediums, for the right purpose. Yeah. In a lot of ways. So and I keep going back to this and I genuinely do mean it. It's the role of the media channel that we have to really question.And what its purpose is. So for me, digital and there's a whole heap of media channels. That are there to purely attention grab.

Rory

Yeah.

Sayed

And for us, that's super important because you've never heard of us.

Rory

Of course. Yeah.

Sayed

But actually then the question becomes, what do you do with that attention? How do you maximise that curiosity that you've just piqued? And for me, mail specifically, plays a huge role in that because, that's why I'm bringing you on the journey on a one-to-one basis. Not in a cluttered environment where I've gained your attention.

Rory

You can't fragment the letter box. I always say that part. Yeah.

Sayed

it comes through to your letterbox and you take your time to go through it. And actually, there's something, if you've got the personalisation right. And, it is a test and learn channel. Ideal for test and learn. And if you can figure out what works, what doesn't work, but essentially what you're doing is from that moment, you're, you're creating, a relationship there. Yes. That is almost uninterrupted. You can’t really say in your day-to-day life when you check out the news, etc. And you're chased around by a digital medium. And it has its purpose. But actually, like, what do I do with that attention that I've worked so hard to get? That's the role that mail plays.

Rory

And actually the very fact that it's cost a little bit more to actually gain that attention.

Sayed

Yeah.

Sayed

Is meaningful in all kinds of ways. I think the consumer detects it. In other words, you have chosen to spend money writing to me. Therefore, what you have to say is almost certainly not irrelevant. Whereas when you go online, let's be honest, most of it is spray and pray. Yeah. And you also, when you write to 100 people, you know, they're 100 different people. In the digital universe there’s actually, not altogether ridiculous. I would say. You may well be reaching the same person 100 times.

Sayed

Yeah

Rory

Have you tested using it in conjunction with, say, radio or TV? Or do you plan to do that?

Sayed

We do plan to do that with, SMARTY. And actually, I've used that quite a lot in my previous roles. And what I find is that. It comes back to the radio or the TV can make these lovely promises. That's what makes it stand out. A reason as to why somebody should pay attention in the first place. But what you get with mail is those promises turning into guarantees. Because I'm writing it down for you. And this is where the balance is between the scientific side of what we do. Of our craft. But actually, remember, sometimes we forget. That it's an art first and foremost. That's connected to, human psychology. So it is an art form in that way. So it's a lot around, the relevance, but also how personalised and how important you've made me feel.

Rory

And what would you recommend to other marketers who are looking to actually kind of, empower them at the very least, test something?

Sayed

First and foremost say, take a test and learn approach with it. And actually. Take the time out to do two things. Number one, really understand who you're talking to. Who it's aimed at. And also take the time out to understand what is the role the medium plays. And I think, the companies that have done that or brands have done that really well. They're not afraid to put effort into that. Knowing full well, that actually the first objective is to make sure that it captures your attention. In that one-to-one. When you pull out all your mail.

Rory

Yeah.

Sayed

From the letterbox. That it's, one that actually stands out to you. Even having the county name, or having something that identifies you as, like more than ‘dear’.

Rory

More than just a random recipient of.

Sayed

Exactly. Yeah. So that. Take the time out to do that. And then the third and final element of it is. Actually it’s on us as marketeers to educate our business. Around the role that digital plays, where actually everything is fascinating because you see it in real time. Versus something that has longevity in it. And that's mail.But actually that's, certainly in my career.

Rory

That's consumer time rather than real time.

Sayed

But it's the same argument you are having, like, you know. Probably about a decade ago when digital became more mainstream. There were some people that thought TV’s dead. But actually, no. TV still is the king of driving awareness, right? And I think there's something magical in the written format that goes back to, our history as humans.

Rory

I completely agree.

Sayed

Yeah. That you can, you can relate to. And it demands your attention.

Rory

Interestingly, WARC did research into, short versus long-term efficacy of communication channels. Now, rather annoyingly, they didn't include direct mail in this. But in support of your thesis. Print advertising was the one which was both most overrated. But also where the longer-term effects were disproportionately higher than the short-term. There were other media where, yeah, there were short-term effects and not much else. And often, of course, the longer-term effects weren't being measured or weren't being quantified. But it was and I think we can, although we are obviously, you know, talking about direct mail here. We can also say the same of print advertising. That it's been unfairly written off. Because it has an often unmeasured effectiveness in the same way.

Sayed

I totally agree. And for SMARTY again. Print plays a huge role for us. We’ve got much more granular kind of level of detail about what works. But this thing around immediacy. That's the conversation that us marketeers has to have. Because, at a human level. Keeping it really simple. I'd rather, if you're communicating with somebody. It’s much easier to communicate to someone one to one.

Rory

Yeah.

Sayed

Than actually at a broadcast level. But obviously that comes at a cost. But it's never going to be an ‘either or’ situation. It's about understanding, okay, what's the role of each of those channels? And then the question I would go as far to ask is. What role does direct mail play in being able to hold all of that together?

Rory

What we've got to be really careful of is that everybody is trying to prove the efficacy of one thing versus another. And actually, it's everything in combination. Is probably the most effective. And there's a lot of evidence, by the way. That if you encounter a brand in two or three separate forms. Let's say TV, print, mail or TV, digital, mail. There's a multiplicative effect. It's not merely additive.

Sayed

Yeah. Because all it's doing, each time it's building up your trust. Of that. And that familiarity which for a digital brand like us really, really matters. It’s the SIM pack is the only physical, tangible part of the brand that people who, touch, feel and actually experience. But the thing that we're trying to drive is reassurance.

Rory

That was fantastic. Thank you very much indeed. So I'd just like to end by saying that, if you'd like to unleash the power of direct mail for your organisation. It's very, very easy. All you have to do is get in touch with marketreach.co.uk Where you can find lots of ways to contact people. But also a whole resource of expertise. Just as you've heard today in exactly this area. Thank you very much. And see you next time.